UPDATE: Subsequent to this post, Guarino has removed, without comment, Bob Grenier's name from the post pictured below.
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Monday, January 04, 2010
Situational Ethics
If you are going to delete comments from your blog because a commenter whines that he does not want people to know the real identity behind his obnoxious online persona, you might want to make sure that you, yourself, have not previously identified him -- with his picture!
UPDATE: Subsequent to this post, Guarino has removed, without comment, Bob Grenier's name from the post pictured below.
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UPDATE: Subsequent to this post, Guarino has removed, without comment, Bob Grenier's name from the post pictured below.
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Spot on, Roch. Good find. Mr. Bubba (aka Mr. Grenier) has no legs left to stand on for his recent "don't identify me" cowardice at Joe's place. The problem with being a bully or coward or liar, by father used to say, is remembering all the stories you tell. I updated my post on this farce with your link.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand how this is an example of situational ethics. Joe posted a pic with a caption id'ing bubba. Bubba asks for his id to be removed from website. The only problem I see is that Guarino did not totally comply with the request, but you are still moaning about Guarino. I don't get it.
ReplyDeleteIt's really funny that among Greensboro's intellectual elite, this kind of BS is what it takes to generate hits. Hey Roch Smith Jr., I'll bet money that this drama gets the most clicks today on G101.
--Brandon Burgess
Brandon, why do you suppose Bubba does not want his name associated with his pseudonym?
ReplyDeleteI am not attacking Joe for not fully complying with Bubba's request. I am criticizing his willingness to delete other people's comments when they contain information no more offensive or objectionable than what Joe himself has already published.
ReplyDeleteI do not know if Bubba's comments were a threat. You could ask Bob although I suspect you'll encounter another double standard, one that discards the previously advanced notion that a person is threatened if she says she feels she was threatened.
"...I am criticizing his willingness to delete other people's comments..."
ReplyDeleteAt the moment, it seems Joe's policy is to delete comments upon request. I think it is fair but I don't think it is a sustainable policy.
--Brandon Burgess
"Subsequent to this post, Guarino has removed, without comment, Bob Grenier's name from the post pictured below."
ReplyDeleteSomeone needs to introduce Joe to the "closing the barn door" concept.
Or MY personal favorite, "You can't unring a bell."
I am formally asking the proprietor of this blog to remove the picture, and to refrain from further using my real name in the blogosphere.
ReplyDeleteIn addition, I formally ask Sue Polinsky, Jim Buie, and anyone else to refrain from personally identifying me by using my name in any way on the internet.
You may respond at my email: bubbanear@yahoo.com.
On second thought, I take it back. How can I make a "formal request" of that nature from behind a pseudonym? You could not be certain who I really am or even what name I am asking you to remove. Stupid of me, but illustrative of the silliness of my campaign, I'll admit.
ReplyDeleteIf I want to make another request, I'll do so with my real name.
"But I maintain that you probably enjoy anonymity..."
ReplyDeleteThe whole point of this discussion is that BOB HAS NO ANONYMITY and hasn't for a long time! And much of the "outing" of "Bubba" was by himself and/or his cronies. Jeez! This isn't a difficult concept to grasp!
No, the point is that Bubba asked Guarino to remove his id'ing info and Guarino has since complied. A non-issue.
ReplyDeleteIssues have brought upon regarding deletion of comments at the request of Bubba, but since Roch's request was also honored=non-issue.
What it comes down to, for me at least, is that it is a commenters personal choice to disclose identifying information. I have seen Roch and Sue and a few others refer to Bubba by his real name while engaging him in discourse when "Bubba" would've been entirely appropriate.
My conclusion is that folks refer to the man by his real name solely to cause him discomfort and to annoy him and neither of these goals have anything to do with any of the posts or threads where Bubba's name has been mentioned.
I'd like to add that hardly anyone ever refers to other profane and abusive bloggers by their real name. Probably because they don't like the targets of that blogger. No one said a word when the same blogger deleted a comment of mine and took it upon himself to post his own interpretation of what I wrote without providing my actual comment.
JW, your use of all caps implies screaming or yelling and I find that annoying and abusive. Would you mind providing your real name?
--Brandon Burgess
Brandon, Bubba must be laughing at your generous interpretation.
ReplyDeleteWhy would a man object to someone addressing him by his real name when it is not a secret? No wait, here is a better question: If Bob's quest for "anonymity" were sincere instead of an attempt to bully, annoy and disrupt, why wouldn't he just start using another pseudonym? That would be the most complete and least complicated solution --all within Bob's control with no need to attempt to control other people. Bob could have his anonymity in the blink of an eye completely independent of the actions of others.
That Bob instead continues to use the pseudonym Bubba and stomp his feet about people acknowledging the well documented fact that Bubba is Bob Grenier should tell you something about his true motivations. JW is right, it's not complicated.
Roch, what is your motivation for constantly using the man's name when he has asked you not to?
ReplyDelete--Brandon Burgess
You first.
ReplyDeleteRoch, I've answered why one may wish to remain anonymous, "because he's an @$$".
ReplyDeleteI can't explain why he behaves the way he does (not using a different pseudonym).
I am hoping to understand why you constantly refer to him using his legal name rather than the pseudonym he wishes to be identified with online?
Roch, could you please provide me with "JW"s real first and last name?
--Brandon Burgess
I am not asking you to explain why he does not use a different pseudonym, I am asking you to acknowledge the fact that not doing so puts the lie to his complaints. But, I guess that falls into the realm of assholishness.
ReplyDeleteI do not "constantly" refer to Bob by his real name. More often than not, I refer to him as Bubba. I call him Bob when he says something particularly obnoxious or moronic.
"I call him Bob when he says something particularly obnoxious or moronic."
ReplyDelete--That's what I was looking for. This issue is resolved on my end; and I learned a new word today.
--Brandon Burgess
You will note that I did not use Bob's real name at all in the original post which, if my intentions were to annoy him, would have been easy enough. I only used his name in the update when it was required to explain what Guarino had deleted.
ReplyDeleteOh, I didn't mean to ignore your request for JW's name. I think you should ask her if you want to know.
ReplyDelete"JW, your use of all caps implies screaming or yelling and I find that annoying and abusive. Would you mind providing your real name?"
ReplyDeleteSorry you had to ask Roch for my name. I'm sorry I didn't get to your question quickly enough. I have so much going on that I can't always answer requests quickly enough. I do, however, get to them as quickly as possible. You see, I have a very full life.
My use of capital letters is to provide emphasis. Tone is often difficult to discern in print. I'm not, by nature, one who screams or yells. But I cannot be responsible for your interpretation of my intentions. I simply attempt to communicate as clearly as possible. Sometimes I fall short. Sometimes with some people I can't possibly communicate clearly enough no matter how hard I try.
If you found the capital letters I use "annoying and abusive," you must be the biggest sissy in town. Now, please don't go on an irrational tirade about name calling. It was simply the first thing I thought of when I read your comment. No, actually, not the first thing. I thought of a different word, but decided that I'm really not given to vulgarity any more than I am to yelling.
Re: My name. Janet Wright.
Brandon, you have learned so much in your short time visiting the local blogs.
ReplyDeleteYou're seeing the double standards first hand and getting quite good at pointing them out and arguing your point.
Well done, young Skywalker.
See for example, the lack of outrage by some when Lex Alexander was/is deleting comments on his blog that challenge his arguments.
See also (if you can find it) the flak I received from a whole host of liberals when I outed "Chewie" a few years ago (someone who also made sarcastic and combative remarks albeit against conservatives). And then there was "greendog", a liberal who made Bubba's comments look like they were written by Hallmark.
The resident ombudsman of all local media hasn't been too concerned about those two incidents.
You are dealing with Left wing extremists for the most part where consistency is of no concern despite their feigned outrage. It is all about discrediting the other side at all costs even when it requires blatant hypocrisy.
I think you are starting to see that now. You are holding your own quite well.
Johnny One Note is projecting. He assumes that I have the world and its people clearly bifurcated into "sides" as he does and that there is one I will not take.
ReplyDeleteThat is fantasy at odds with the posts below on this blog where I three times, in as many weeks, question derogatory narratives aimed at conservative Mayor Bill Knight, chide the supposedly liberal News & Record for silly reporting and questionable headlines, and criticize Democratic Senator Kay Hagan.
So we have reality or Spagnola's interpretation. Take your pick.
Ms. Wright, I've been under the impression that bloggers discourage the use of all caps because they also find it annoying and offensive because of the widely accepted notion that all caps=screaming/yelling.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that you resort to name calling to excuse and draw attention away from your shameful and childish behavior makes you at least as bad as Bubba.
The fact that Roch condones the use of all caps and personal attacks on his commenters just reveals him to be a joker whose real beef is with Bubba and Guarino's political beliefs, in other words, he is incapable of respecting people he doesn't see eye to eye with.
--Brandon Burgess
Ms.Wright, I realize that my comment about Bubba was inappropriate and that comments like that only hinder any kind of progress, that is why I apologized for it.
ReplyDeleteOf course, I'm still respectful enough to call him by the name he prefers to be called.
--Brandon Burgess
"He assumes that I have the world and its people clearly bifurcated into "sides" as he does and that there is one I will not take. "
ReplyDeleteReally Roch? Do you fact check positive assertions about Obama the way you fact check negative ones?
Do you hold left wing bloggers to the same standards you hold right wing bloggers?
You "chided" the N&R for not pointing out the position held by a critic of the Obama/Pelosi/Reid health care bill. Would you do the same if the N&R ran a letter by a supporter without identifying their political ties? I doubt it.
Similarly, your criticism of Hagan was that she supports a health care bill that doesn't go far enough to the Left for you.
I don't begrudge your opinions, but you can trash the objective ombudsmen act and you look silly attacking the lack of consistency and double standards you see on Guarino's site in light of your own double standards and the years of silence from you regarding the blatant inconsistencies and double standards at Cone's site.
You love to police the conservative sites. Not so much on the liberal ones. Nobody needs me to tell them that because your record speaks for itself.
"Nobody needs me to tell them that because your record speaks for itself." -- Johnny Onenote
ReplyDeleteI'll happily go along with that.
"The fact that Roch condones the use of all caps and personal attacks on his commenters just reveals him to be a joker..." Brandon
ReplyDeleteBrandon, it didn't even cross my mind to delete your personal attacks. Are you suggesting I should?
I will give some serious consideration to deleting comments that contain words in all caps. After all, civil society demands that we draw the line somewhere.
What are your thoughts on exclamation points? Is two too many or should I have a zero tolerance policy and delete comments that use even one?
I await your thoughtful advice.
Roch, I would rather you leave my comments as they are.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting you wouldn't think to remove my comment after you requested Guarino remove a comment of Bubba's. Maybe you don't mind trash-talking as long as it isn't directed towards you? Did Bubba's comment contain profanity? Or was it just a reaction to Bubba's request? Maybe you were testing Guarino?
--Brandon Burgess
"Roch, I would rather you leave my comments as they are." -- Brandon
ReplyDeleteYou put me in a tough spot, Brandon. You want me to leave your comments alone but, according to you, I am a joker if I do. Hmmm.
Roch, does my use of profanity in describing Bubba's attitude warrant deletion? Would it if Bubba said the same thing about you?
ReplyDeleteAgain, it is hypocritical that you request Guarino remove comments you find offensive while you tolerate profanity towards Bubba on your blog.
And yes, I find it hypocritical that I used profanity while preaching for civility. I apologized and I would rather my comments remain for all to see but considering your behavior at Guarino's, I am puzzled as to why they remain.
--Brandon Burgess
Roch, I don't view my premise as falling prey to faulty reasoning. Here is why:
ReplyDeleteYou attack/harass Bubba for being obnoxious and/or offensive.
You tolerate offensive/profane comments toward Bubba on your blog.
The fact that I wish my comments to remain is irrelevant. You let them remain but obviously, your preference is that bloggers remove offensive comments.
So, it seems that you do tolerate profane or abusive comments as long as they aren't directed toward you or your friends, exposing you as a joker.
--Brandon Burgess
Okee dokie.
ReplyDeleteOf course, the proprietor of this blog has no qualms about someone else impersonationing my in a response above.
ReplyDeleteThat fact is noted.
These comments from those who refuse to understand are also noted.
And of course, there is no reaction to the request I made in my first post on this thread. above.
That is also noted.
'Okee dokie.' Translation-you just kicked my ass all over my own blog in plain sight, but I'm hoping some will interpret this weak attempt at feigned ridicule as smug self-assurance to the contrary.
ReplyDeletePicker, honest debate assumes goodwill between the participants. When one will not even acknowledge a contradiction, I assume there is no goodwill or that I am dealing with a mentally stunted individual. I have no interest in continuing in either case.
ReplyDeleteRoch, do you have a hard copy of the book you linked to? I'm guessing from the $50.00/used price tag that this is a current textbook.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to find a good book that deals with logic and such.
--Brandon Burgess
Brandon, I do not. I looked for it at Barnes and Nobles last week, but they don't stock it. There are used copies online but, as you noticed, they are expensive.
ReplyDeleteIn looking, I actually saw a few other less expensive books on the subject that looked very good. (They are in the philosophy section at B&N). I did not get any, but I think I might this weekend. If I do, you will be welcome to borrow what I get when I'm done and if you are interested. I don't remember all the titles, but this is one.
Sounds good. I will have to check out the selection at Barnes and Noble. I'm more of a Border's guy because of all the good music they used to stock.
ReplyDeleteWe are using "The Art of Thinking" by Ruggiero in my Critical Thinking class this semester.
I've skimmed through it. Looks interesting. I plan to really dig into this weekend.
--Brandon Burgess