Rhinoceros Times editor John Hammer in his column this week: "If he [President-elect Obama] has a valid birth certificate with the seal and all of that, can the stupid thing be put on the web..."
At which hospital was Obama born? Where are the hospital records showing the date and time of his birth? Who was his mother’s OB-GYN? Where are the records from his office? What Dr. delivered him? Where are his records? Were there nurses present at delivery? Why have there been no interviews with any Dr. or nurse present at his birth? Wouldn’t that be somewhat of a significant event, on par with Baby Jesus in the Manger? How about neighbors who lived beside Obama’s mother? Have they been interviewed? Do they remember her pregnancy? Was there a baby shower for Obama’s mother? Who attended? Why have none of these people been interviewed? Did Obama’s mother rent a place to live, or buy one? Where are the rental or lease records from his mother’s residence, or the deed if she owned a house? Is there any proof at all that Obama’s mother was physically present in Hawaii at that time? Is there any proof that Obama’s mother was somewhere else when the birth is alleged to have occurred in Hawaii?
Why is it that reporters can find out the hat size of the gardener of a neighbor of a prospective Republican candidate but can't even verify that a president-elect was born when and where he alleges??
Why have no reporters followed up on any of this??
No that Obama wasn't born when and where he claims, I'm just sayin'...
First of all, Hammer asked why a copy of Obama's birth certificate isn't on the web. Let's not lose sight of the point of this post -- that Hammer is either willfully ignorant or misleading his readers.
Secondly, I have yet to see you ask for this kind of proof for John McCain. In fact, we don't have access to a verified copy of foreign-born McCain's birth certificate on the web, the way we do US-born Obama's, yet this was never/is not a concern of yours. I wonder why that is? Skin color enough for you?
Thirdly, your list of necessary evidence is ridiculous (and also curiously not required of McCain). But hey, I hear Obama's afterbirth is in a jar at Bill Ayers' house.
There is no question about McCain. Both parents were US citizens, his father was a serving member of the US military. So can you answer any of the above questions I posed about Obama? I would think that Obama's mama's girlfriends would be lining up for Oprah appearances to cash in on being part of the miracle birth of the Messiah. Wouldn't the nurses or Dr.'s who delivered Obama also be proud of their part in such a significant event? Thus far, NO ONE who was present for any of the pre-natal events or actions has come forward or been found. Why not?
Be open minded Roch. I'd love to see jaycee's questions answered instead of you doing the dosie-doe. "swing your partner round and round". "And there you go again" with that skin color thing. When nothing else works... Have a good weekend RS.
Come on, Tony, Jaycee is approaching "Man didn't land on the moon" territory here. At some point, you just have to say, "I'm not wasting time on kooky conspiracies."
Here. I'll go this far. I'll give the same kind of answer Jaycee accepts for McCain: We know Obama is a US citizen because his mother was a US citizen. There. Good enough for McCain. Good enough for Obama. (That and, OH YEAH! His friggin' birth certificate is online -- UNLIKE McCAIN'S.)
Roch, that US citizen thing is great, but if Obama was born on foreign soil then he does not qualify to serve as the US president no matter the citizenship of his parents. McCain was born on a US military base, considered US soil. Therein lies the crux---can Obama prove he is "natural born?" The US Supreme Court has ordered Obama to submit his birth certificate by December 1st for review. If there was no question, why would the Supreme Court be taking this unprecedented action?
jaycee said, "but if Obama was born on foreign soil then he does not qualify to serve as the US president no matter the citizenship of his parents."
Perhaps Jaycee can provide us with links and/or federal regulations that prove that the children of American citizens are not themselves natural born American citizens.
"Roch, that US citizen thing is great, but if Obama was born on foreign soil then he does not qualify to serve as the US president no matter the citizenship of his parents."
Wrong.
"McCain was born on a US military base, considered US soil."
Prove it.
"The US Supreme Court has ordered Obama to submit his birth certificate by December 1st for review."
Sure they have -- and it's a secret to the media, "reported" only on right wing blogs (Hey, maybe we'll see it in Editor Moonbeam's column next week). Even if that were true it wouldn't be enough for you, so be sure to let us know when the Supreme Court gets around to your list of demands above.
Roch, you have doubts about a US military installation being considered US soil? I know you didn't serve in the US military, but even you can't defend that statement.
Prove that McCain was born where you say he was born and to whom you say he was born.
Prove that a person born to a US citizen is not himself a US citizen.
Prove that the SCOTUS has ordered Obama to provide his birth certificate by December 1.
I'm just asking you to back up the assertions you made, or admit that you were mistaken, or ignore them and demonstrate yourself gullible and uninformed.
The California secretary of state should refuse to allow the state's 55 Electoral College votes to be cast in the 2008 presidential election until President-elect Barack Obama verifies his eligibility to hold the office, alleges a California court petition filed on behalf of former presidential candidate Alan Keyes and others.
As Snopes points out, loony lawsuits challenging a winning candidate's eligibility on citizenship grounds are more common than you might think, although they're always dismissed. As last as October, one was still pending against John McCain in the Federal District Court in Concord, New Hampshire, although there was some question as to whether it would be allowed to proceed.
At least one legal scholar seems to think the case against McCain's eligibility has (well, "had," since the point is moot now) merit:
It sounds pretty nutty to me, albeit not as nutty as the claims about Obama's birth certificate. And as Snopes points out, the fact that no court has ever ruled on what the phrase "natural born citizen" actually MEANS does allow some leeway for such nonsense.
These frivolous lawsuits have a pretty long history, going back at least as far as Barry Goldwater's candidacy in 1964 (on the basis that he'd been born in Arizona before that territory became a state). They never come to anything and only the batshit brigade takes them seriously.
This is why it is very tempting to just ignore your comments, Jaycee. We get into a discussion, you make unfounded assertion, I ask you to back them up and you slink away still wagging your finger at me.
Be a man, if you dare, and back up these assertions you made:
Prove that McCain was born where you say he was born and to whom you say he was born.
Prove that a person born to a US citizen is not himself a US citizen.
Prove that the SCOTUS has ordered Obama to provide his birth certificate by December 1.
Please, Roch, answer the questions I posed earlier. You seem to steadfastly and blindly accept anything the Messiah says and disparage anything that doesn't fit your agenda.
Sure, Jaycee, I'll answer your questions. Let's be clear, you are asking me to answer questions of your making, not to verify something I asserted whereas my questions are to ask you to substantiate YOUR assertions.
- At which hospital was Obama born?
I don't know.
- Where are the hospital records showing the date and time of his birth?
I don't know.
- Who was his mother’s OB-GYN? Where are the records from his office?
I don't know.
- What Dr. delivered him? Where are his records?
I don't know.
- Were there nurses present at delivery?
I don't know.
- Why have there been no interviews with any Dr. or nurse present at his birth?
I do not know that there have been no such interviews.
- Wouldn’t that be somewhat of a significant event, on par with Baby Jesus in the Manger?
In your opinion, perhaps.
- How about neighbors who lived beside Obama’s mother? Have they been interviewed?
I don't know.
- Do they remember her pregnancy?
I couldn't say.
- Was there a baby shower for Obama’s mother? Who attended?
I don't know.
- Why have none of these people been interviewed?
I don't know that they have not been interviewed.
- Did Obama’s mother rent a place to live, or buy one? Where are the rental or lease records from his mother’s residence, or the deed if she owned a house?
I don't know.
- Is there any proof at all that Obama’s mother was physically present in Hawaii at that time? Is there any proof that Obama’s mother was somewhere else when the birth is alleged to have occurred in Hawaii?
Okay, Jayce, I've answered your questions, now I know you will be a man and back up the assertions you made.
You said, if a person is "born on foreign soil then he does not qualify to serve as the US president no matter the citizenship of his parents." What source substantiates that claim?
You said, "McCain was born on a US military base." How do you know that? Any proof? Is it on his birth certificate or any kind of official record you have seen? Can I see it?
You said, "There is no question about McCain. Both parents were US citizens..." What proof do you have of that? Can I see it?
You said, ""The US Supreme Court has ordered Obama to submit his birth certificate by December 1st for review." Since this is recent "news" it should be the easiest of all to verify. What source can I see that substantiates this?
So, Roch, your position is that when a US military officer and his US citizen wife give birth to a baby in a US military hospital on US soil then that child must come to the US and study and then pass the citizenship test before he's a US citizen?? What are you smoking these days?
Actually, what the Hamster wrote was "How about enough information to clear up the whole birth certificate thing once and for all. If he has a valid birth certificate with the seal and all of that, scan the stupid thing and put it up on the web, or at least show it to some respected reporters."
As your post shows, the valid birth certificate not only has been scanned and posted but also has been shown to FactCheck's reporters, who photographed it. Its validity was also confirmed by Hawaii's State Health Department Director. But I guess that they're all in on the conspiracy.
It looks as if Editor Moonbeam has his tin foil hat pulled down over his eyes in hopes that he will never see the truth.
ReplyDeleteAt which hospital was Obama born?
ReplyDeleteWhere are the hospital records showing the date and time of his birth?
Who was his mother’s OB-GYN? Where are the records from his office?
What Dr. delivered him? Where are his records?
Were there nurses present at delivery?
Why have there been no interviews with any Dr. or nurse present at his birth? Wouldn’t that be somewhat of a significant event, on par with Baby Jesus in the Manger?
How about neighbors who lived beside Obama’s mother? Have they been interviewed? Do they remember her pregnancy?
Was there a baby shower for Obama’s mother? Who attended? Why have none of these people been interviewed?
Did Obama’s mother rent a place to live, or buy one? Where are the rental or lease records from his mother’s residence, or the deed if she owned a house?
Is there any proof at all that Obama’s mother was physically present in Hawaii at that time?
Is there any proof that Obama’s mother was somewhere else when the birth is alleged to have occurred in Hawaii?
Why is it that reporters can find out the hat size of the gardener of a neighbor of a prospective Republican candidate but can't even verify that a president-elect was born when and where he alleges??
Why have no reporters followed up on any of this??
No that Obama wasn't born when and where he claims, I'm just sayin'...
You're kidding right?
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, Hammer asked why a copy of Obama's birth certificate isn't on the web. Let's not lose sight of the point of this post -- that Hammer is either willfully ignorant or misleading his readers.
Secondly, I have yet to see you ask for this kind of proof for John McCain. In fact, we don't have access to a verified copy of foreign-born McCain's birth certificate on the web, the way we do US-born Obama's, yet this was never/is not a concern of yours. I wonder why that is? Skin color enough for you?
Thirdly, your list of necessary evidence is ridiculous (and also curiously not required of McCain). But hey, I hear Obama's afterbirth is in a jar at Bill Ayers' house.
There is no question about McCain. Both parents were US citizens, his father was a serving member of the US military.
ReplyDeleteSo can you answer any of the above questions I posed about Obama?
I would think that Obama's mama's girlfriends would be lining up for Oprah appearances to cash in on being part of the miracle birth of the Messiah.
Wouldn't the nurses or Dr.'s who delivered Obama also be proud of their part in such a significant event?
Thus far, NO ONE who was present for any of the pre-natal events or actions has come forward or been found.
Why not?
Be open minded Roch.
ReplyDeleteI'd love to see jaycee's questions answered instead of you doing the dosie-doe. "swing your partner round and round".
"And there you go again" with that skin color thing. When nothing else works...
Have a good weekend RS.
Come on, Tony, Jaycee is approaching "Man didn't land on the moon" territory here. At some point, you just have to say, "I'm not wasting time on kooky conspiracies."
ReplyDeleteHere. I'll go this far. I'll give the same kind of answer Jaycee accepts for McCain: We know Obama is a US citizen because his mother was a US citizen. There. Good enough for McCain. Good enough for Obama. (That and, OH YEAH! His friggin' birth certificate is online -- UNLIKE McCAIN'S.)
Roch, that US citizen thing is great, but if Obama was born on foreign soil then he does not qualify to serve as the US president no matter the citizenship of his parents.
ReplyDeleteMcCain was born on a US military base, considered US soil.
Therein lies the crux---can Obama prove he is "natural born?"
The US Supreme Court has ordered Obama to submit his birth certificate by December 1st for review. If there was no question, why would the Supreme Court be taking this unprecedented action?
jaycee said, "but if Obama was born on foreign soil then he does not qualify to serve as the US president no matter the citizenship of his parents."
ReplyDeletePerhaps Jaycee can provide us with links and/or federal regulations that prove that the children of American citizens are not themselves natural born American citizens.
Jaycee,
ReplyDeletePlease don't be a fool.
"Roch, that US citizen thing is great, but if Obama was born on foreign soil then he does not qualify to serve as the US president no matter the citizenship of his parents."
Wrong.
"McCain was born on a US military base, considered US soil."
Prove it.
"The US Supreme Court has ordered Obama to submit his birth certificate by December 1st for review."
Sure they have -- and it's a secret to the media, "reported" only on right wing blogs (Hey, maybe we'll see it in Editor Moonbeam's column next week). Even if that were true it wouldn't be enough for you, so be sure to let us know when the Supreme Court gets around to your list of demands above.
Roch, you have doubts about a US military installation being considered US soil? I know you didn't serve in the US military, but even you can't defend that statement.
ReplyDeleteJaycee,
ReplyDeleteProve that McCain was born where you say he was born and to whom you say he was born.
Prove that a person born to a US citizen is not himself a US citizen.
Prove that the SCOTUS has ordered Obama to provide his birth certificate by December 1.
I'm just asking you to back up the assertions you made, or admit that you were mistaken, or ignore them and demonstrate yourself gullible and uninformed.
The California secretary of state should refuse to allow the state's 55 Electoral College votes to be cast in the 2008 presidential election until President-elect Barack Obama verifies his eligibility to hold the office, alleges a California court petition filed on behalf of former presidential candidate Alan Keyes and others.
ReplyDeleterad more here
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80931
read
ReplyDeleteRoch, you're just being silly now.
ReplyDeleteAs Snopes points out, loony lawsuits challenging a winning candidate's eligibility on citizenship grounds are more common than you might think, although they're always dismissed. As last as October, one was still pending against John McCain in the Federal District Court in Concord, New Hampshire, although there was some question as to whether it would be allowed to proceed.
ReplyDeleteAt least one legal scholar seems to think the case against McCain's eligibility has (well, "had," since the point is moot now) merit:
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract-id=1157621
It sounds pretty nutty to me, albeit not as nutty as the claims about Obama's birth certificate. And as Snopes points out, the fact that no court has ever ruled on what the phrase "natural born citizen" actually MEANS does allow some leeway for such nonsense.
These frivolous lawsuits have a pretty long history, going back at least as far as Barry Goldwater's candidacy in 1964 (on the basis that he'd been born in Arizona before that territory became a state). They never come to anything and only the batshit brigade takes them seriously.
This is why it is very tempting to just ignore your comments, Jaycee. We get into a discussion, you make unfounded assertion, I ask you to back them up and you slink away still wagging your finger at me.
ReplyDeleteBe a man, if you dare, and back up these assertions you made:
Prove that McCain was born where you say he was born and to whom you say he was born.
Prove that a person born to a US citizen is not himself a US citizen.
Prove that the SCOTUS has ordered Obama to provide his birth certificate by December 1.
Please, Roch, answer the questions I posed earlier.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to steadfastly and blindly accept anything the Messiah says and disparage anything that doesn't fit your agenda.
Sure, Jaycee, I'll answer your questions. Let's be clear, you are asking me to answer questions of your making, not to verify something I asserted whereas my questions are to ask you to substantiate YOUR assertions.
ReplyDelete- At which hospital was Obama born?
I don't know.
- Where are the hospital records showing the date and time of his birth?
I don't know.
- Who was his mother’s OB-GYN? Where are the records from his office?
I don't know.
- What Dr. delivered him? Where are his records?
I don't know.
- Were there nurses present at delivery?
I don't know.
- Why have there been no interviews with any Dr. or nurse present at his birth?
I do not know that there have been no such interviews.
- Wouldn’t that be somewhat of a significant event, on par with Baby Jesus in the Manger?
In your opinion, perhaps.
- How about neighbors who lived beside Obama’s mother? Have they been interviewed?
I don't know.
- Do they remember her pregnancy?
I couldn't say.
- Was there a baby shower for Obama’s mother? Who attended?
I don't know.
- Why have none of these people been interviewed?
I don't know that they have not been interviewed.
- Did Obama’s mother rent a place to live, or buy one? Where are the rental or lease records from his mother’s residence, or the deed if she owned a house?
I don't know.
- Is there any proof at all that Obama’s mother was physically present in Hawaii at that time?
Is there any proof that Obama’s mother was somewhere else when the birth is alleged to have occurred in Hawaii?
I don't know.
Okay, Jayce, I've answered your questions, now I know you will be a man and back up the assertions you made.
ReplyDeleteYou said, if a person is "born on foreign soil then he does not qualify to serve as the US president no matter the citizenship of his parents." What source substantiates that claim?
You said, "McCain was born on a US military base." How do you know that? Any proof? Is it on his birth certificate or any kind of official record you have seen? Can I see it?
You said, "There is no question about McCain. Both parents were US citizens..." What proof do you have of that? Can I see it?
You said, ""The US Supreme Court has ordered Obama to submit his birth certificate by December 1st for review." Since this is recent "news" it should be the easiest of all to verify. What source can I see that substantiates this?
Why do dogs eat cat poop? By the way, neat online diary.
ReplyDeleteSo, Roch, your position is that when a US military officer and his US citizen wife give birth to a baby in a US military hospital on US soil then that child must come to the US and study and then pass the citizenship test before he's a US citizen??
ReplyDeleteWhat are you smoking these days?
I answered your questions, Jaycee. Are you going to be a man and answer mine?
ReplyDeleteYou've passed the silly and are now knee-deep into the absurd.
ReplyDeleteLorraine, is that you?? :)
ReplyDeleteRoch:
ReplyDeleteActually, what the Hamster wrote was "How about enough information to clear up the whole birth certificate thing once and for all. If he has a valid birth certificate with the seal and all of that, scan the stupid thing and put it up on the web, or at least show it to some respected reporters."
As your post shows, the valid birth certificate not only has been scanned and posted but also has been shown to FactCheck's reporters, who photographed it. Its validity was also confirmed by Hawaii's State Health Department Director. But I guess that they're all in on the conspiracy.